{"id":3357,"date":"2010-12-30T03:31:37","date_gmt":"2010-12-30T10:31:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/astrowin.org\/rffriends\/wpx\/?p=3357"},"modified":"2012-12-04T20:39:28","modified_gmt":"2012-12-05T03:39:28","slug":"rick-manoff-explores-converse-progression","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/astrowin.org\/rffriends\/wpx\/?p=3357","title":{"rendered":"Rick M Explores Converse Progression"},"content":{"rendered":"

? \u00a0Rick M:\u00a0 Greetings. Rick M here. Does anyone have much experience with converse aspects, viz. secondary converse ones? I decided to finally look into it, and I chose\u00a0the\u00a0solar arc &\u00a0Placidus houses method.<\/p>\n

I’ve only gone back in my few key years, and they do seem to find resonance with normal progressions and transits. They even seem to be more fateful, less internal. What little I have read on the matter seems to indicate that delineating them is a bit different methodologically, which makes sense since they are contrary to normal time movement. Usually I find that when an astrologer totally\u00a0pooh-poohs an established method, it is because (s)he is trying to apply the exact same delineational procedures of a differing method. Even conventional, forward-based secondary progressions\u00a0need to find resonance within the nativity, but I have read that converse aspects are only benefic or adverse depending upon their natal aspects and the houses they occupy therein.<\/p>\n

For instance, I now have converse Jupiter sextile radical ASC. Transiting Jupiter is also favorably aspecting my natal ASC. \u00a0Now, secondary Jupiter (conventional) only recently conjoined my progressed ASC.\u00a0 Also, I now have converse Sun square radical Venus\/Neptune and converse Neptune aspecting radical Venus; while conventional secondary Venus is sextile radical Neptune! \u00a0What consonance.<\/p>\n

? \u00a0ER:\u00a0 Ahhh, you have a little time now with Christmas break, I suppose.<\/p>\n

? \u00a0RM:\u00a0 Yes, 7 work days off and the weekends. \ud83d\ude09 \u00a0I just met with some Club students for our Christmas dinner. \u00a0I do try to prepare them for college, but several ex-students showed up and were so friendly and thanked me much more for caring and preparing them for life, so I guess my skills are more in the counseling dept.<\/p>\n

? \u00a0\u00a0ER: \u00a0It must be very rewarding to know you’ve been a positive influence in a young life!\u00a0 You know much more about astrology than I do, and I have never heard of converse aspects.\u00a0 I still have your horoscope, though, from the last time we looked at it (Placidus), and it looks to me like progressed Venus trines natal Pluto, the Ascendant has progressed harmonious to the Nodes, and progressed Mercury is opposing your\u00a0natal Moon.\u00a0 It would be a little hard to know how to separate out these influences to determine whether they<\/span> are manifesting or whether it is the converse aspects that you mention which are manifesting.<\/p>\n

? \u00a0RM:\u00a0 I have a little more experience astrologically than you do, but, it is still limited, and I think you have a better PHILOSOPHICAL grasp of astrology\/esoterica than I do. Maybe grasp<\/em> isn’t even the best word. Construct<\/em> might be better. Or insight<\/em>.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>

Inner = Secondary Progressions<\/p><\/div>\n

That conflicted moon\/mercury progression has been really irking or annoying…much more trouble than I had anticipated \u2013 disagreements with relations;\u00a0procedural issues\u00a0with young people; written errors. I guess it’s because Mercury is my ruler, since natally they are in (the widest possible)\u00a0trine.<\/p>\n

? <\/em>\u00a0ER:\u00a0 You stated: <\/em>\u00a0Even conventional, forward-based secondary progressions\u00a0need to find resonance within the nativity, but I have read that converse aspects are only benefic or adverse depending upon their natal aspects and the houses they occupy therein.<\/em><\/p>\n

Since I don’t know what a\u00a0CONVERSE aspect is, I don’t know EXACTLY what you mean. \u00a0\u00a0Basically they need to find resonance within the nativity, but are you saying that this is true even in a more restrictive way?\u00a0 The research of Doris Chase Doane would have one believe that the type of aspect is not so important, just that there IS an aspect — and that this triggers the event.<\/p>\n

? \u00a0RM:\u00a0 YES. While a directed aspect or transit should always be checked against the nativity, with these converse ones the natal quality seems to be the sole determining factor in manifestation. And I mean concrete, physical world\u2014event manifestation. If natally<\/strong> one has Venus sq. Mars, then progressed Venus sextile Mars mainly affects other people around the native, in my experience. But converse Venus square Mars tends to still produce good, to some extent, even if there be no natal aspect between the two yet Venus and Mars are otherwise well positioned\/aspected at birth.<\/p>\n

? \u00a0ER:\u00a0 Sounds like a secret love to me,\u00a0 with the greater and lesser benefics working for you.<\/p>\n

? \u00a0RM:\u00a0 Yep, I keep getting that too. From the solar return, precession-corrected (what I prefer). From primary directions (Venus square Mars). From converse secondary progressions (C secondary Moon coming to the 7th cusp and C secondary Venus square radical ASC). From transiting Neptune to R Venus. And secondary progressed Venus well-aspecting Venus\/Neptune and Pluto natally.<\/p>\n

note: R<\/strong> = radical; C<\/strong> means converse<\/strong> here. Converse means to count backwards in time at the same rate\/in the same manner as traditional directions, just as forward time reference is used for normal. See below.*<\/p>\n

The Rev. Dr. Rudhyar http:\/\/www.khaldea.com\/rudhyar\/astroarticles\/converseprogressions.php<\/a><\/p>\n

[This link gives a more detailed explanation and discussion about converse aspects.]<\/p>\n

I usually use Simmonite* method for rectification of MC and converse calculations, but Heindel’s solar arc works too. Liz Green uses a less popular method that seems psychologically very accurate. The one local, professional astrologer in my area swears by Naibod’s method for MC.<\/p>\n

*same as solar arc RA for MC method<\/p>\n

?\u00a0 ER:\u00a0 Some of the converse aspects involve the very slow movers, and these are not necessarily extremely close aspects, so I would not put much weight on these, but I understand your adding them in when they\u00a0seem to support what is already going on with regular transits and progressions in the chart.\u00a0 I find it significant that you have become interested in converse movement at the same time that the nodes are emphasized\u00a0because they signify past\u00a0versus present\/future life direction.<\/p>\n

Hey, speaking of backward and forward movement, the UW Marching Band is flying to Pasadena with 68 trombones, 111 trumpets, 23 tuba’s, 3 Bucky Badgers, et al in a Boeing 747.\u00a0\u00a0 The parade route is nearly 6 miles long, and the report is that the band is going to do their highly demanding<\/em> “stop at the top” step for 25 minutes (normal is 8 minutes) at the beginning of the 6-mile march.\u00a0 And<\/span> have enough wind to blow their horns!<\/p>\n

?\u00a0 RM:\u00a0 The UW Marching Band- That is cool. I like marching bands. All<\/strong> my cousins on mom’s side were involved in one, or in music.<\/p>\n

? \u00a0ER:\u00a0 Richard K is preparing for some lectures that draw\u00a0parallels (figuratively) between aspects and combinations of planets.\u00a0 For instance, Moon and Mercury, being oscillatory by nature,\u00a0resemble the opposition, so other aspects between them have that quality also.\u00a0 (Mercurial volatility.)\u00a0\u00a0These lectures may be for Winter School at Mount Ecclesia — or possibly for second semester classes here in Madison; I am not sure.<\/p>\n

It seems to me that all transiting and progressed aspects are\u00a0relevant (only\/mainly) when they aspect natal planets (as opposed to aspects to\u00a0other transiting or progressed bodies), and that all of these\u00a0aspects are\u00a0subordinate to or can manifest only within the limits of the natal chart.\u00a0 The potential must be indicated in the natal chart in order for\u00a0transits and progressions to bring it about.<\/p>\n

With astrology, for me it\u2019s enough to work with the traditional, basic aspects and to stay with one system.\u00a0 Otherwise it gets too confusing \u2013 more than I can handle.\u00a0 But, I must admit that the whole idea of converse aspects is intriguing.\u00a0 Chiron is also interesting.<\/p>\n

So that’s my two cents.<\/p>\n

?\u00a0 RM:\u00a0 Converse method seems to value number more than the single flow of time,\u00a0with the interpretative distinction that the converse progressed horoscope is connected to preconditioning by the past while the forward progressed horoscope is connected to opportunities for development<\/p>\n

[Rick M is a member of The Rosicrucian Fellowship]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

? \u00a0Rick M:\u00a0 Greetings. Rick M here. Does anyone have much experience with converse aspects, viz. secondary converse ones? I decided to finally look into it, and I chose\u00a0the\u00a0solar arc &\u00a0Placidus houses method. I’ve only gone back in my few key years, and they do seem to find resonance with normal progressions and transits. They […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3,28],"tags":[279,278,280,281],"class_list":["post-3357","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-astrology","category-friends","tag-astology","tag-converse-progression","tag-directions","tag-transits"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/astrowin.org\/rffriends\/wpx\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3357","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/astrowin.org\/rffriends\/wpx\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/astrowin.org\/rffriends\/wpx\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/astrowin.org\/rffriends\/wpx\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/astrowin.org\/rffriends\/wpx\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=3357"}],"version-history":[{"count":16,"href":"https:\/\/astrowin.org\/rffriends\/wpx\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3357\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4355,"href":"https:\/\/astrowin.org\/rffriends\/wpx\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3357\/revisions\/4355"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/astrowin.org\/rffriends\/wpx\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=3357"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/astrowin.org\/rffriends\/wpx\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=3357"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/astrowin.org\/rffriends\/wpx\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=3357"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}