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?  Rick M:  Greetings. Rick M here. Does anyone have much experience with converse aspects, viz. secondary converse ones? I decided to finally look into it, and I chose the solar arc & Placidus houses method.

I’ve only gone back in my few key years, and they do seem to find resonance with normal progressions and transits. They even seem to be more fateful, less internal. What little I have read on the matter seems to indicate that delineating them is a bit different methodologically, which makes sense since they are contrary to normal time movement. Usually I find that when an astrologer totally pooh-poohs an established method, it is because (s)he is trying to apply the exact same delineational procedures of a differing method. Even conventional, forward-based secondary progressions need to find resonance within the nativity, but I have read that converse aspects are only benefic or adverse depending upon their natal aspects and the houses they occupy therein.

For instance, I now have converse Jupiter sextile radical ASC. Transiting Jupiter is also favorably aspecting my natal ASC.  Now, secondary Jupiter (conventional) only recently conjoined my progressed ASC.  Also, I now have converse Sun square radical Venus/Neptune and converse Neptune aspecting radical Venus; while conventional secondary Venus is sextile radical Neptune!  What consonance.

?  ER:  Ahhh, you have a little time now with Christmas break, I suppose.

?  RM:  Yes, 7 work days off and the weekends. 😉  I just met with some Club students for our Christmas dinner.  I do try to prepare them for college, but several ex-students showed up and were so friendly and thanked me much more for caring and preparing them for life, so I guess my skills are more in the counseling dept.

?   ER:  It must be very rewarding to know you’ve been a positive influence in a young life!  You know much more about astrology than I do, and I have never heard of converse aspects.  I still have your horoscope, though, from the last time we looked at it (Placidus), and it looks to me like progressed Venus trines natal Pluto, the Ascendant has progressed harmonious to the Nodes, and progressed Mercury is opposing your natal Moon.  It would be a little hard to know how to separate out these influences to determine whether they are manifesting or whether it is the converse aspects that you mention which are manifesting.

?  RM:  I have a little more experience astrologically than you do, but, it is still limited, and I think you have a better PHILOSOPHICAL grasp of astrology/esoterica than I do. Maybe grasp isn’t even the best word. Construct might be better. Or insight.

That conflicted moon/mercury progression has been really irking or annoying…much more trouble than I had anticipated – disagreements with relations; procedural issues with young people; written errors. I guess it’s because Mercury is my ruler, since natally they are in (the widest possible) trine.

?  ER:  You stated:  Even conventional, forward-based secondary progressions need to find resonance within the nativity, but I have read that converse aspects are only benefic or adverse depending upon their natal aspects and the houses they occupy therein.

Since I don’t know what a CONVERSE aspect is, I don’t know EXACTLY what you mean.   Basically they need to find resonance within the nativity, but are you saying that this is true even in a more restrictive way?  The research of Doris Chase Doane would have one believe that the type of aspect is not so important, just that there IS an aspect — and that this triggers the event.

?  RM:  YES. While a directed aspect or transit should always be checked against the nativity, with these converse ones the natal quality seems to be the sole determining factor in manifestation. And I mean concrete, physical world—event manifestation. If natally one has Venus sq. Mars, then progressed Venus sextile Mars mainly affects other people around the native, in my experience. But converse Venus square Mars tends to still produce good, to some extent, even if there be no natal aspect between the two yet Venus and Mars are otherwise well positioned/aspected at birth.

?  ER:  Sounds like a secret love to me,  with the greater and lesser benefics working for you.

?  RM:  Yep, I keep getting that too. From the solar return, precession-corrected (what I prefer). From primary directions (Venus square Mars). From converse secondary progressions (C secondary Moon coming to the 7th cusp and C secondary Venus square radical ASC). From transiting Neptune to R Venus. And secondary progressed Venus well-aspecting Venus/Neptune and Pluto natally.

note: R = radical; C means converse here. Converse means to count backwards in time at the same rate/in the same manner as traditional directions, just as forward time reference is used for normal. See below.*

The Rev. Dr. Rudhyar http://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/astroarticles/converseprogressions.php

[This link gives a more detailed explanation and discussion about converse aspects.]

I usually use Simmonite* method for rectification of MC and converse calculations, but Heindel’s solar arc works too. Liz Green uses a less popular method that seems psychologically very accurate. The one local, professional astrologer in my area swears by Naibod’s method for MC.

*same as solar arc RA for MC method

?  ER:  Some of the converse aspects involve the very slow movers, and these are not necessarily extremely close aspects, so I would not put much weight on these, but I understand your adding them in when they seem to support what is already going on with regular transits and progressions in the chart.  I find it significant that you have become interested in converse movement at the same time that the nodes are emphasized because they signify past versus present/future life direction.

Hey, speaking of backward and forward movement, the UW Marching Band is flying to Pasadena with 68 trombones, 111 trumpets, 23 tuba’s, 3 Bucky Badgers, et al in a Boeing 747.   The parade route is nearly 6 miles long, and the report is that the band is going to do their highly demanding “stop at the top” step for 25 minutes (normal is 8 minutes) at the beginning of the 6-mile march.  And have enough wind to blow their horns!

?  RM:  The UW Marching Band- That is cool. I like marching bands. All my cousins on mom’s side were involved in one, or in music.

?  ER:  Richard K is preparing for some lectures that draw parallels (figuratively) between aspects and combinations of planets.  For instance, Moon and Mercury, being oscillatory by nature, resemble the opposition, so other aspects between them have that quality also.  (Mercurial volatility.)  These lectures may be for Winter School at Mount Ecclesia — or possibly for second semester classes here in Madison; I am not sure.

It seems to me that all transiting and progressed aspects are relevant (only/mainly) when they aspect natal planets (as opposed to aspects to other transiting or progressed bodies), and that all of these aspects are subordinate to or can manifest only within the limits of the natal chart.  The potential must be indicated in the natal chart in order for transits and progressions to bring it about.

With astrology, for me it’s enough to work with the traditional, basic aspects and to stay with one system.  Otherwise it gets too confusing – more than I can handle.  But, I must admit that the whole idea of converse aspects is intriguing.  Chiron is also interesting.

So that’s my two cents.

?  RM:  Converse method seems to value number more than the single flow of time, with the interpretative distinction that the converse progressed horoscope is connected to preconditioning by the past while the forward progressed horoscope is connected to opportunities for development

[Rick M is a member of The Rosicrucian Fellowship]

Tags: astology, converse progression, directions, transits